Loud music and fires banned in tailgating lots

[David Karki]

As unbelievable as that headline is, it's the truth. Thanks to the dwellers of the condos that now exist on the old Washington Avenue site complaining and getting Minneapolis to pass a city ordinance, tailgating music cannot exceed 90 decibels and no fires for heat are allowed, even within a completely enclosed fire pit (which we had). Only small charcoal or gas grills for cooking will be allowed.

We actually had a discussion with the poor guy who had to enforce it (and who was no more happy about it than we were, but had to do his duty lest his employer, the company the Vikes contracted to manage the lots, get fined for non-compliance), and there isn't much we can do about it. If we defied the bans, we'd get our tailgate passes yanked, and if it were to continue, the managing company would probably get fined and ultimately permission to use the lots which Zygi obtained would probably be revoked. (It was a series of one-year agreements, so they could end it after any season.)

So be advised, any of you coming for any remaining Vikings home games, that thanks to the complaints of those stupid busybodies, you'll have to shiver in the December cold and keep the music turned down while you tailgate. (Because it's apparently unreasonable to move next to a stadium and then have people tailgating next door as a result. In a related story, they'll move next to the airport and then bitch about the plane noise - oh wait, they've been doing that for years around here, too. Morons.)

I know Zygi thinks a downtown Dome replacement is the only thing the state will fund and that's why he abandoned the Anoka County plan, but having to put up with the Minneapolis powers-that-be perpetually treating the Vikings and their fans the way a baby treats a diaper is intolerable.

They have used that Dome lease as an excuse to beat up on us every way they can, pretty much simply because they know there is nothing the Vikes can do about it. (Think Kevin Bacon in Animal House: "Thank you sir, may I have another?!! Thank you sir, may I have another?!!")

And judging by this, that clearly isn't going to change, even with a new building. Zygi had better be prepared to have these kind of folks as a thorn in his - and his fans' - side for a long time to come.


P.S. -- I do believe I predicted this some time back on Iggy's Network54 board, though someone might have to check the archive to verify. The moment condos were going to be built on the old Washington Avenue site, I knew that the uber-liberals who would inevitably live in such a place and Vikings tailgaters would inevitably collide. And so it has happened.

[Hossman]

Heres a tissue for you Dave. My god music and campfires get real!!!

Originally Posted by David Karki

As unbelievable as that headline is, it's the truth. Thanks to the dwellers of the condos that now exist on the old Washington Avenue site complaining and getting Minneapolis to pass a city ordinance, tailgating music cannot exceed 90 decibels and no fires for heat are allowed, even within a completely enclosed fire pit (which we had). Only small charcoal or gas grills for cooking will be allowed.

We actually had a discussion with the poor guy who had to enforce it (and who was no more happy about it than we were, but had to do his duty lest his employer, the company the Vikes contracted to manage the lots, get fined for non-compliance), and there isn't much we can do about it. If we defied the bans, we'd get our tailgate passes yanked, and if it were to continue, the managing company would probably get fined and ultimately permission to use the lots which Zygi obtained would probably be revoked. (It was a series of one-year agreements, so they could end it after any season.)

So be advised, any of you coming for any remaining Vikings home games, that thanks to the complaints of those stupid busybodies, you'll have to shiver in the December cold and keep the music turned down while you tailgate. (Because it's apparently unreasonable to move next to a stadium and then have people tailgating next door as a result. In a related story, they'll move next to the airport and then bitch about the plane noise - oh wait, they've been doing that for years around here, too. Morons.)

I know Zygi thinks a downtown Dome replacement is the only thing the state will fund and that's why he abandoned the Anoka County plan, but having to put up with the Minneapolis powers-that-be perpetually treating the Vikings and their fans the way a baby treats a diaper is intolerable.

They have used that Dome lease as an excuse to beat up on us every way they can, pretty much simply because they know there is nothing the Vikes can do about it. (Think Kevin Bacon in Animal House: "Thank you sir, may I have another?!! Thank you sir, may I have another?!!")

And judging by this, that clearly isn't going to change, even with a new building. Zygi had better be prepared to have these kind of folks as a thorn in his - and his fans' - side for a long time to come.


P.S. -- I do believe I predicted this some time back on Iggy's Network54 board, though someone might have to check the archive to verify. The moment condos were going to be built on the old Washington Avenue site, I knew that the uber-liberals who would inevitably live in such a place and Vikings tailgaters would inevitably collide. And so it has happened.

[Dutch Viking]

Very classy Hossman, very classy... *shaking head*

[Glommer]

I'm strongly with my friend Dave on this.

No way i'd be able to pull off a Glommerfest with those rules. Of course, Glommerfest is usually pretty far from any condo, and has few rules.

Regardless, I'm with Dave on this. Big time.

[Glommer]

Look, the more I think about it, the more this disturbs me. If true, this is not Dave complaining about troughs, this is a viking management assault on fans.

[Wembley Awesome™]

I don't think this is a liberal-conservative issue so much as it is a quality of life issue for those who have chosen to live downown. Having said that, the quality & availability of tailgating is not going to get any better with or without a new downtown stadium.

[Dutch Viking]

Originally Posted by Wembley Awesome™

I don't think this is a liberal-conservative issue so much as it is a quality of life issue for those who have chosen to live downown. Having said that, the quality & availability of tailgating is not going to get any better with or without a new downtown stadium.

It is a quality of life problem for those that have chosen to LIVE DOWNTOWN near a STADIUM. If you move near an airport, don't bitch about the noise. The reason your house was CHEAPER is because of the noise. (It's different when something is BUILT near you, like a near airport or runway, or a new stadium, that wasn't there before.)

Tailgating, and music and small "campfires" that go with that, especially in MN, are a tradition dating back nearly a half-century, if not longer (with college teams, etc).

I don't have a problem with them cracking down on public urination and college students starting bonfires with furniture and all that, but come on. To not let us have an enclosed fire (considering that an open flame is ridiculous), is just a asinine interpretation of the law.

[Illy]

Those snooty downtowners can't put up with a little noise 10 times a year??!!

Dave I always thought your music was a bit loud but if you're rumbling the condo dwellers out of bed at 7am on a Sunday morn you guys must have done some more updating the system!

Enclosed fires on the other hand are necessary, I'm even less of of a fan of being cold than loud music.

[Vikadelic]

See you Sunday, guys. This is not good news for the shorts-wearing public (i.e., me).

[Valknut]

Color me a little less impressed every day by the decision making people of Minneapolis/Minnesota.

[Dutch Viking]

Originally Posted by Illy

Those snooty downtowners can't put up with a little noise 10 times a year??!!

Dave I always thought your music was a bit loud but if you're rumbling the condo dwellers out of bed at 7am on a Sunday morn you guys must have done some more updating the system!

Enclosed fires on the other hand are necessary, I'm even less of of a fan of being cold than loud music.

The condos are several blocks away so they can't really hear anything unless their windows are open, other than just general noise from the area... and no, no changes to the system. And where we are now doesn't require it as loud as it used to anyway, and yet we still got told to "turn it down under 90 decibels"... as if we just have a decibel meter handy. *shaking head*

[Dutch Viking]

Originally Posted by Valknut

Color me a little less impressed every day by the decision making people of Minneapolis/Minnesota.

This is the damn condo owners complaining to the board, who of course, jump due to the affluent nature of those said condo owners. And as the interpretation of the rules gets passed down, it gets interpreted and reinterpreted some more. What we need is some people in authority who have the nads to tell the owners to "get bent".

My guess is that the "open flame" rule does not apply to enclosed fire pits, but by the time it trickled down to the lot owners it because "nothing but grills".

[David Karki]

My guess is that the "open flame" rule does not apply to enclosed fire pits, but by the time it trickled down to the lot owners it because "nothing but grills".

The company managing the lots probably had to go overboard to ensure no further griping from the condo idiots, and no chance of paying fines starting at $180 a pop. Thus, anything bigger than a Bic lighter will get frowned upon...

[Wembley Awesome™]

Originally Posted by Dutch Viking

It is a quality of life problem for those that have chosen to LIVE DOWNTOWN near a STADIUM. If you move near an airport, don't bitch about the noise. The reason your house was CHEAPER is because of the noise. (It's different when something is BUILT near you, like a near airport or runway, or a new stadium, that wasn't there before.)

Unfortunately, those people do complain and their complaints are taken seriously.... remember how the city of Bloomington paid millions of dollars to assist residents in soundproofing their homes, only to get sued later because they sealed those homes too well? I was not defending the complaining downtown condominum owners so much as I was pointing out that their complaints have nothing to do with a politically liberal bias against stadiums.

[Vikadelic]

Originally Posted by Wembley Awesome™

Unfortunately, those people do complain and their complaints are taken seriously.... remember how the city of Bloomington paid millions of dollars to assist residents in soundproofing their homes, only to get sued later because they sealed those homes too well? I was not defending the complaining downtown condominum owners so much as I was pointing out that their complaints have nothing to do with a politically liberal bias against stadiums.

Hmm. I can only hope they start complaining about the traffic noise, too, so we can get more light rail. Heh.

[Wembley Awesome™]

Originally Posted by Valknut

Color me a little less impressed every day by the decision making people of Minneapolis/Minnesota.

Minneapolis wants to increase the number of residents in their downtown core. The city does not want to remain a "cold Omaha". I cannot fault the decision of the city to improve liveability for the people who pay good money to actually live there. In any case, most cities favor residents over visitors. That's not a stupid decision so much as it's a pragmatic decision.

Now whether downtown Minneapolis has succeeded or will succeed in becoming a legitimate urban center with residential neighborhoods is another debate for another time & place.

[Wembley Awesome™]

Originally Posted by Vikadelic

Hmm. I can only hope they start complaining about the traffic noise, too, so we can get more light rail. Heh.

What liberals (many of whom would not be caught dead on public transit) don't realize is that light rail is quite noisy. Just ask those people in Bloomington and south Minneapolis who have to live by the current Hiawatha Line. It's a major issue to work out in the planned Central Line, because that route will be at grade and in the middle of a major street for nearly all of it. It is also an issue with one of the ways the proposed Southwest Line will enter the downtown area, because the least costly option is to have that route barrel through the residential areas of western Minneapolis along ROW the county purchased a quarter century ago for light rail.

Those trains howl & squeal something fierce, especially when they have to make a sharp turn. Add the claxions & warning bells at high speed grade crossings and one can see that the claim that light rail is quieter than buses is at best a mild exaggeration.

Incidentally, one of the reasons why the public tacitly supported replacing light rail with buses back in the 1950s was because buses were perceived as being quieter than trains. And keep in mind that while noise mitigation technology was not available for light rail during that time, buses were much noiser and smokier than they are now.

To get an idea of how loud the trains can screech when making a turn, stand by where the trains turn into the Downtown East station in front of the Metrodome. An even noisier spot is where the trains run in the middle of the street just north of the VA Hospital. And where the trains are expected to make a near-90 degree turn into the Mall of America, the sound they make is absolutely obnoxious.

[Vikadelic]

Actually, I ride the light rail quite often and yes, it is noisy. However, I find it very convenient to park at my downtown office for free in a secured underground lot and ride the light rail to the airport or, occasionally, the MOA.

If/when the other routes get built, I'll probably use it even more -- provided I live that long.

[Wembley Awesome™]

Originally Posted by Vikadelic

Actually, I ride the light rail quite often and yes, it is noisy. However, I find it very convenient to park at my downtown office for free in a secured underground lot and ride the light rail to the airport or, occasionally, the MOA.

If/when the other routes get built, I'll probably use it even more -- provided I live that long.

I'm a big light rail supporter. I just do not believe in leaving out the facts. We'll probably see 2 more lines before we're ready to push daisies, a far cry from the system that the car-hating liberals originally (and still) wanted to foist on us.

Hopefully we shall both see a new Vikings Stadium in our lifetime. At this point I'll take one without tailgating improvements.

[Glommer]

I'm a big supporter of everybody but me riding the light rail.

But as for the noise...isn't this the city with all those massive walls lining the freeways? Who paid for those, the taxpayer or the residents on the other side of them?

[Valknut]

Originally Posted by Wembley Awesome™

Minneapolis wants to increase the number of residents in their downtown core. The city does not want to remain a "cold Omaha". I cannot fault the decision of the city to improve liveability for the people who pay good money to actually live there. In any case, most cities favor residents over visitors. That's not a stupid decision so much as it's a pragmatic decision.

Now whether downtown Minneapolis has succeeded or will succeed in becoming a legitimate urban center with residential neighborhoods is another debate for another time & place.

And when the city and their beloved residents are done crapping on the (soon to be L.A.) Vikings and their fans, the economic hit will be felt and there will be nothing left to complain about except spiraling property values.

Good luck to them, they're going to need it.

[Valknut]

Originally Posted by Dutch Viking

What we need is some people in authority who have the nads to tell the owners to "get bent".

Which was my point.

[Dutch Viking]

Originally Posted by Wembley Awesome™

Minneapolis wants to increase the number of residents in their downtown core. The city does not want to remain a "cold Omaha". I cannot fault the decision of the city to improve liveability for the people who pay good money to actually live there. In any case, most cities favor residents over visitors. That's not a stupid decision so much as it's a pragmatic decision.

Now whether downtown Minneapolis has succeeded or will succeed in becoming a legitimate urban center with residential neighborhoods is another debate for another time & place.

The other side of this is that part of Chicago's renaissance was the downtown neighborhoods and the loud street festivals that cover multiple city blocks somewhere down there nearly every weekend during the summer. Most of the residents love it... and the ones that complain are the exception to the rule. And really, what is different? Loud music, lots of traffic, drunk people, etc. And yet in Chicago it's embraced. In Mpls.... well...

Maybe they are just catering to the wrong type of people? Or maybe, just maybe, MN has a tendency of trying to please even the smallest minority population... ye who bitches loudest syndrome.

[Vikadelic]

Originally Posted by Dutch Viking

The other side of this is that part of Chicago's renaissance was the downtown neighborhoods and the loud street festivals that cover multiple city blocks somewhere down there nearly every weekend during the summer. Most of the residents love it... and the ones that complain are the exception to the rule. And really, what is different? Loud music, lots of traffic, drunk people, etc. And yet in Chicago it's embraced. In Mpls.... well...

Maybe they are just catering to the wrong type of people? Or maybe, just maybe, MN has a tendency of trying to please even the smallest minority population... ye who bitches loudest syndrome.

I attribute it to something else. The thin veneer of Minnesota Nice which overlays the thick and impervious membrane of passive aggressiveness. Hell, even famed resident's Charles Schulz' first "Peanuts" cartoon reeked with passive aggression.

"There goes Charlie Brown... Good ol' Charlie Brown ... How I hate him!"

[Glommer]

Vika, you are a sage one-eyed man with a keen power of observation.

Makes me feel kinda bad about deceiving the postal clerk the other day.

[Wembley Awesome™]

Originally Posted by Valknut

And when the city and their beloved residents are done crapping on the (soon to be L.A.) Vikings and their fans, the economic hit will be felt and there will be nothing left to complain about except spiraling property values.

Good luck to them, they're going to need it.

People have been saying "soon to be LA Vikings" for the last fifteen years.

If the Vikings move anywhere, it will not be to Los Angeles.

And the people who complained about the noise and the fires probably know that too.

[Wembley Awesome™]

Originally Posted by Dutch Viking

The other side of this is that part of Chicago's renaissance was the downtown neighborhoods and the loud street festivals that cover multiple city blocks somewhere down there nearly every weekend during the summer. Most of the residents love it... and the ones that complain are the exception to the rule. And really, what is different? Loud music, lots of traffic, drunk people, etc. And yet in Chicago it's embraced. In Mpls.... well...

Maybe they are just catering to the wrong type of people? Or maybe, just maybe, MN has a tendency of trying to please even the smallest minority population... ye who bitches loudest syndrome.

That's a good point. And yes, it's likely the "ye who bitches loudest" syndrome. Minneapolis is still learning how to be a real city. Chicago has been a real city for while. And like you pointed out, the residents like the overabundance of activity over in Chicago. Here in Minneapolis, the complainers evidently do not.

BTW, I live within walking & partying distance of the forthcoming Gophers Stadium and any noise I will have to put with as a result will come with the territory. One either lives out in the quieter suburbs or takes the good with the bad if they want to live closer to the action.

[Wembley Awesome™]

Originally Posted by Vikadelic

I attribute it to something else. The thin veneer of Minnesota Nice which overlays the thick and impervious membrane of passive aggressiveness. Hell, even famed resident's Charles Schulz' first "Peanuts" cartoon reeked with passive aggression.

"There goes Charlie Brown... Good ol' Charlie Brown ... How I hate him!"

I know what you mean.... as an East Coast transplant, I've come to hate the phoniness of Minnesota Nice.